A client called me up complaining about the membrane that he bought from us more than a month ago. According to him, after a month of operation, the said membrane clogged up and he told me that membrane is fake because it did not last long. He even commented that he tried almost all the brands but all of them are not of good quality and that lead him to his conclusion that a lot of membrane nowadays are not the genuine one.
During our entire conversation, he did not mention anything about the configuration of his system and it’s condition,even the quality of his feed water was never considered.
If you try to analyze his concern, it seems that all the failures were attributed to the membrane alone, it was really a one sided story as if ,he was able to perfect the art of membrane technology and have zeroed out the culprit which is,the membrane.
I asked him basic details about his system and the quality of his feed water but he knew nothing about it.
I asked for his technician to discuss about the issue, but still, he was very surprise to my inquiries. The client is totally relying on the technician who knew nothing at all about the principle of reverse osmosis and yet both of them claimed that it was the membrane failure.
“If a blind leads a blind, both will fall into the ditch.”
As for membrane warranty, technically, suppliers will always deny it, not unless we were able to present pertinent data that would prove that, it is really the membrane failure, in legal parlance, you have to prove it beyond reasonable doubt,however based on our practice, no one in the commercial market is monitoring and recording such data, so, the warranty that we are discussing is just part of our imagination.
There are so many factors that could affect the membrane,we should always evaluate all the possible cause so that we can prolong the membrane’s service life.
On the case of my client, no warranty will ever be considered, due to obvious reason and failure started one month after it’s installation, it can be assumed that membrane’s performance could have been affected by undetermined factor.
Always asked your technician or installer about system and feed water monitoring,based on my experience,it is not the factory defect, it is the technician’s defect.
Always be sure of the technician or company that you are dealing with.
- Orly Shanghai
11 comments:
Hi,
I have practically scoured the entire “net” only to find in you an in-depth – thorough explanation on what I call “underpinning knowledge” of how things work in an RO system.
I am Douglas Rey B. Berido from Lapu-Lapu City in Cebu, and, like the rest of your readers, I am into purified water business. I own four refilling stores for which a handsome number of bottles are dispensed everyday.
While this is so, I do not own an RO machine because I buy the finished product from a bulk RO water supplier here in Lapu-Lapu City.
I would want to invest into an RO system big enough for at least 12k liters per day. A 3k capacity machine would not suffice not to mention it is quiet expensive.
My RO water supplier has ten - 8”x40” membrane, a dousing (anti scalant) pump and a ten micron bag filter for its pre filtration. Its raw water pump is also the RO pump further cutting on cost and capital expenditure. Yes, this pump draws up ground water (approximately 40 feet down) and feeds this directly into the membrane only passing through 10 micron bag filter and a dousing pump (anti-scalant).
Would you say this is suitable for my needs as against getting at least four individual machines?
If and when you suggest this is better set-up: 1) what pump size (1.5Hp or 2Hp or 3Hp) is appropriate knowing each membrane will have dropped the pressure significantly? 2) is this set-up OK for the long run? 3) Are these anti scalant food grade? 4) Lapu-Lapu is a coral island, hence scale is an issue but more than that would multimedia filter needed since it is lime rock (apog) all the way down any well here in Lapu. Hope to hear from you.
Thanks for the compliments,based on what you are planning, 12,000 liters per day is roughly something within the range of 3000GPD but this production is for 24 hours.
In order for the machine not be overworked, as a safety factor,we try to double the capacity to reach 6000 GPD so that production is within 12 hours only excluding the volume of water inside the product tank.
For us to conceptualize the proper design, you first subject your product water through physico chemical analysis(18 parameters)so that we can finalize the design configuration of the system.
It is not wise to just install a pre designed system being offered by water companies because they are adapted to the quality of Manila Water.
We just keep in touch.
Please feel free to contact my assistant just in case if you have inquiry (Rona at this number 09233020138 or 567-9990 to 95)
Thanks for the reply, man!
May i just press you to comment on the practice of Aqua Pure (the purified water supplier) on their RO process:
1) they do not use multimedia filtration anymore, instead they use a 10 micron bag filter from from source (deep well) to membrane.
2) also, they do not use ion exchanger, instead they use antiscalant chemical to address the "clinging" ability of calcium and magnesium in water, hence membrane premature clogging is avoided.
3) What antiscalant chemical do you think they use and to what dillution.
Again I am sorry to have pushed you to answer these questions. I have no one else to go. Please help.
Muti Media Depth Filter tank and 10 micron bag filter are same when it comes to efficiency.MMDF is backwashble type and bag filter is washable type.
Water softener is used to removed calcium and magnesium from the water and these 2 elements can cause serious scalling problem to the membrane that will eventually lead to pre mature clogging. The concept of using anti scallant is to inhibit calcium and magnesium from forming scales and when this happens it will not cause scalling problem to the membrane, however, anti scallant is widely use for non food grade applications and I have no idea as of the moment if there are already food grade anti scallant because I am not into anti scallant practice since I deal mostly on commercial applications. If you have detailed concerns on anti scallant, I have a client who specializes on this field that would help you a lot.
Anti scalant and water softeners are common in Industrial applications for scalling concerns and the decision on what system to be used will depend on its initial investment and running cost that the enduser will have to decide the moment they have conducted a feasibility study.
Thank you, sir. Keep on writing and more power. We'll keep in touch.
Hi Orley,
You might remember I posted a comment-reply to one of your posts penned under the name "Swosh". That was some two or so years ago. Since then I havent gone back to Blogger as I only signed up to be able to converse/chat to you.
Anyways...
Your post on Water Softener Regeneration Schedule interests me. And, this might be feathers on your cap, after reading and heading to your advise on that same post you practically saved my three (3) brand new membranes from becoming totally clogged.
Keep on posting...
The formula for regeneration schedule / frequency you posted saved my membrane. Had I followed the advise of my installer my RO would not have lasted three months.
there are my numbers:
Bottles sold per day: 520 minimum
Membrane: Filmtec BW 30 4040, 3pcs
Feed Pump: 1.5 HP
RO Pump: 1.5 HP
Softener: 13x54 originally with 2 sacks of Porolite resin. I now increased it to 3.5 sacks and took out almost a bag and a half of sand and peeble to give way for more resin.
Feedwater Hardness: 510ppm or 30grains
my question, sir: how much amount of salt (in pounds or grams) to be able to regen a 3.5 sack of resin - assuming the resin is fully saturated with calcium/magnesium.
Salamat...
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